[jazzy theme music plays]
I have to go out here now.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen. Do we have married people with families?
[sporadic applause, cheers]
Now, I've been married...
I'm not even sure.
I think, a long time.
And I have a son... who is about my age. And...
What I've noticed about the family
is pretty much trouble-free.
How many of you can share the same experience?
Families, I think it's safe to say, pretty much trouble-free.
Am I right, ladies and gentlemen?
Yes, pretty much trouble free.
By the way, this is the Nate Holden Center for the Performing Arts.
Are you aware of that?
A beautiful facility.
And, uh...
A lot of times you go to theaters...
If you go to New York City,
the Helen Hayes Theatre.
It's a beautiful theater also.
You know, Helen Hayes doesn't get to go to the theater
[whispers] because she's dead.
They do that.
They name stuff; theaters, edifices,
and this is a beauty by the way,
and I'm told that it gets great use in the community.
And it's the Nate Holden Theater.
What do you think?
This is a silly game to play, but...
[mutters] Dead or alive, what do you think?
[woman in audience] Alive.
He is alive, ladies gentlemen, he's here.
Nate, come on out, by God.
Take a bow. Where are you?
[audience cheers]
[Letterman] How are you?
Nice to see you, my friend.
Come on. Just come on over here.
It's so nice to see you again.
This is our second time here.
And, uh... I used to live in California.
Knew nothing about the theater,
knew nothing about Nate.
You were a city councilman for a long time?
That's correct. Sixteen years.
Sixteen years. Many great accomplishments.
What was the thing?
You said until the early '70s,
a woman could not get a mortgage from a bank
unless she had the signature of a man.
And you got that changed. Do I have that correct?
That's correct.
We celebrated Dr. Martin Luther King's birthday the other day.
I'm the author.
California was the first state in the nation
to honor Dr. Martin Luther King and the civil rights movement,
and I'm the author.
[Letterman] Congratulations.
Thank you, sir.
Nice guy, who spent his life in public service...
doing tremendous things
that we take for granted.
So, I'm pleased and honored to be here in this building.
Now, anybody have any idea who's with us tonight?
[woman in audience] Judd Apatow?
Judd Apatow.
- [Letterman laughs] - [audience applauds]
Really?
You'd actually get dressed up and come out to see Judd Apatow?
[Letterman laughs] Oh, man.
This guest tonight is...
and I know a lot of famous people,
I mean... Pat Sajak...
So you see, I know--
I get blue chippers...
Just take a guess.
It's not Judd Apatow.
We couldn't get Judd. I'm sorry.
[man] I'm right here!
Wait a minute. Is he right there?
Holy shit!
Judd, have you wandered away from the house again?
How did you know he was here?
[woman responds indistinctly]
Was he handing out photos in line?
All right.
That's all I got. Goodnight everybody.
[audience applauds]
So, we're going to bring this person out here. And, uh...
I think you're just going to love this.
So, do me a favor now.
Please welcome my next guest, JAY-Z.
Come on out.
[audience cheers]
[JAY-Z] Hey, man.
How are you? It's a great pleasure to see you.
[JAY-Z] Thank you for that.
Thank you.
[JAY-Z] Oh, no, no. Stop it.
[JAY-Z] Cut it out.
- [Letterman] How are you? - [JAY-Z] Can we sit?
Yeah, you can sit.
Thank you so much for being here.
I don't want to make you nervous.
I don't want to make you uncomfortable, but Judd Apatow is in the audience.
You look... fantastic,
and thank you.
It means a great deal to me
that you're here.
Thank you, that's beautiful, man.
Yeah. I'm torn. I don't know whether to start tonight
by kissing up to you...
- or if I should... - Go ahead... Just, first...
How many is it, 21 Grammys you've won?
- Yeah. - My God.
Twenty-one Grammys?
How many albums?
- Thirteen. Yeah. - Thirteen?
And I'm told your wife is also in show business?
[JAY-Z] She's starting.
- She's just starting. - She's starting.
That's pretty good.
I was talking to a journalist,
a music critic,
and he said,
"JAY-Z, in popular cultural music,
is Picasso..."
- Wow. - Called you Picasso.
And me...
because I'm not dumb,
I said-- I made the connection.
I said, "Who would be his Matisse?"
- You see what I'm saying? - Yeah.
Yeah.
So, what do you think? Who would be?
There's so many great people. It's hard to...
Let's start with a list of great people.
Okay.
Biggie Smalls, of course, Notorious B.I.G.
Tupac, of course.
Rakim.
Big Daddy Kane, Slick Rick...
There's so many-- So many great artists, so many people I love.
Are there guys,
men or women, who are successful,
but are not good
at what they're doing?
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. All the time.
Just like everything else.
I'm dying to know somebody who...
can't really rap.
Come on, man.
All right, how about this?
Who's on TV late night...
right now, that's not even remotely funny?
Okay, let's just say...
The other thing I wanted to start here with
is Marcy Projects.
How long were you and your family there?
How many in your family in...?
I'm the youngest of four.
Four. So your mom, your dad, and...
My mom and dad in the beginning,
then my dad was gone when I was about 11,
so it's five of us in total.
Yes, you mentioned that your dad left.
What were the circumstances of that?
Well, I thought he just left.
As a kid, I had a bunch of...
anger towards him.
But, as I grew up, I realized that...
the things that he went through in life were very difficult.
His brother had gotten killed...
in the projects, and someone would call him and say,
"I just seen the guy who killed your brother,"
and he would get up from his bed,
in his bed, with his children.
And he'd take his gun and he'd leave the house,
and at some point, my mother was like, "Man, you have...
a family here."
But she didn't have the language that she needed
to speak to him, like, "We love you,
we don't want to lose you as well."
She didn't have that language.
So it came out-- Her fear came out almost like an ultimatum to him.
And he's like, "My brother...
my blood brother?"
And that kind of splintered their relationship,
and then from there it was just like he was in deep pain.
He started using heroin,
you know, things like that.
There are so many...
I'll say unbelievable-- It's not the right word--
facets to your life, to your early life
and to where you are now,
and you have kids of your own
and you must think every day
of the difference, both in terms of distance
and... emotionally,
that your kids have from what your upbringing was.
It must be gratifying,
and also heartbreaking, for God's sake,
that you had that.
I'm not heartbroken at this point in my life.
I feel grateful everyday.
I wake up, I look around, look at my kids.
They're healthy, they...
Me and my daughter talk.
I told her to get in the car the other day,
'cause she was asking a thousand questions,
and we had to leave for school.
I got in the car, and I'm faced this way.
I'm just painting a picture of how healthy my children are
at this present time.
So we're driving, and then I just hear a little voice.
"Dad?" I turn around, she said,
"I didn't like when you told me to get in the car the way you told me..."
"It hurt--" She's six.
"It hurt my feelings."
I was like...
"That's the most beautiful thing you've ever said to me."
I have those moments with my son also,
but when I was that age,
there was no discussion to getting in the car,
- Just... [mutters] - Yeah. Yeah.
And that was just fine.
What kind of music did your mom and dad play in the house?
Was it radio, was it records?
Did they have a record collection?
No, big record collection.
Prince, Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder...
The Isley Brothers, the Brothers Johnson...
Bootsy Collins, Ohio Players.
Oh, yeah.
Doobie Brothers...
All that.
Was it something for you there?
Did it speak to you, did it move you?
I think that's the reason I make music now.
You can either grow up in a family that plays instruments.
Or you're just exposed to so much Stevie Wonder...
just exposed to so music at a young age,
that it's just in you,
just becomes who you are.
- Yeah, yeah. - Yeah.
What I've tried to do here,
for me, it's all selfish,
is establish things you and I have in common.
Yeah.
And, uh...
When I was a kid about your age...
I had a paper route,
- and I'd be delivering papers. - I had a paper route too.
[audience laughs]
Right away.
It's like I have a twin.
But I want to ask you about...
the circumstances that led to you selling crack.
That was my paper route.
That's what I was talking about.
- Oh, I see... - Yeah.
Twin.
Now, I can remember when...
there was a big crack epidemic,
and I'll be honest with you,
I don't exactly know what crack is.
When I lived in Los Angeles,
there was stuff called free-basing.
That's crack.
- Now that's crack? - Yeah, pretty much.
Where would you get it? How old were you when you were doing this?
Like 16, I started,
and it was everywhere in the neighborhood.
For me, it was a guy... Spanish Jose.
He owned a bodega.
His family owned a bodega across the street,
and he saw me and he was like,
"You're a cool guy, you and your friend.
I like how you carry yourself."
And he recruited us. And from there,
it started the enterprise.
So, it was good for the family to have money,
but what you were doing was
- some element of danger, obviously. - Yeah.
And you went to New Jersey,
- to Trenton to do this? - Yeah, yeah.
How much would you come home with at the end of the day?
It started out really small.
Started small. A couple thousand dollars, and then...
it got really big.
At 16, you're bringing home $2,000 a day?
Yeah.
My God, that's...
And did your mother know where this money was coming from?
She knew.
We didn't talk about it, but she knew.
- Yeah. - Yeah.
So, but eventually you--
What was the reason you decided to give up selling
and go back to writing rhymes?
I would like to say the idea of being in the street,
because at some point,
no one survives that.
You're either going to jail or get killed.
That's just how it was.
Period.
But for me, I think the love of music kept pulling me.
Even when I was out there,
and I was selling drugs and everything,
I was still rapping on the corner.
That would be out in the middle of the time,
when people were coming
and we were conducting business,
every free second I had, I was either writing...
you know that's how I developed a talent of doing music without writing it,
because I would write all the time,
write on paper bags and just stuff it in my pocket.
You know, just every free second I had,
I was making, creating.
This is the kind of thing that fascinates me,
because it happened to me.
There was a moment when I went to high school,
and I did not get good grades,
and it didn't look like I was
going to be successful academically,
but there was a moment for me
when I took a public speaking course
and that changed everything. I was a sophomore in high school.
Now, I know...
your love of words...
had to be fueled somehow early on.
What was that moment?
Yeah.
I had a sixth grade teacher.
Her name was Miss Lowden.
And I just loved the class so much.
Like, reading the dictionary...
and just my love of words...
I just connected with her.
She took us to her house on, um...
a field trip,
and she had ice...
in the refrigerator, way back when no one had it.
And I thought,
"Man, I might be an English teacher."
[audience laughs]
We need to pay our teachers more.
- Yeah. - [audience applauds]
But it's so interesting that that dynamic--
And then here you are who you are,
thanks to Ms. Lowden...
and her ice machine.
Yeah.
Now, tell me the story about you and a buddy
who had been signed and went on a trip to London,
that actually, in some way, may have saved your your life.
And you were just a kid then.
Yes, he came from Marcy Projects.
We call him Jaz-O. And, um...
He had a record deal early on with EMI Records.
They sent this guy from Marcy Projects to London.
They wanted the association
from the same producers who made--
That's how the business worked at the time. Wasn't about music,
it was like, "These producers that made 'Parents Don't Understand'
are going to produce your record."
They don't know Jaz from anything. So, of course it didn't work.
But for two months,
we were in London, recording with these guys,
or "fake recording."
And during that time,
It was like a secret indictment,
and they swept up and grabbed 30 of my friends.
Everyone got locked up and went to jail.
One of my closest friends went to jail for 11 years.
A guy I was with every day.
So that--
- We wouldn't be talking now, would we? - No, no way.
Yeah.
Amazing.
By the way, the East Coast-West Coast thing...
- that's over. - Yeah. Done.
The idea of rap and the battle,
this rap beef that it is today,
it really started as...
like a...
competitors, like basketball.
We would play each other.
In order for me to get on the mic
and rap in front of the crowd,
I had to be great.
I had to be the best, so you would say,
"Okay, say your best rhyme, I'll say mine."
It wasn't a hostile thing.
It was just...
Let's make each other better,
you say something, I'll say something.
Next time I come, I'll say something better,
and we weren't even rapping for ourselves.
In the beginning, you were rapping for the DJ.
The idea was you were supposed to keep people interested in the DJ.
It was like, "My DJ's good, my DJ's great."
That's why all the DJs' names came first.
Eric B. & Rakim,
Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince.
The MC wasn't...
at the forefront.
He was just the Master of Ceremony, "MC."
He was there to say, "Check out how good the DJ is."
And that battle spawned from that time.
And then it got into a place where it got really ugly.
And now I think everyone's learned the lesson
of what that can really do
and how far that can really go,
and we lost two amazing people behind that.
I think everyone took a step back and said,
"This is not what it's about.
This is not what hip hop is about."
Let me talk about
one of your peers, Kanye West.
Are we friends?
Or are we not friends?
[JAY-Z] That's my brother.
We're beyond friends.
Like, literally, my little brother is Kanye.
And like your little brother, things happen sometimes.
Okay, right there. Tell me what happened.
I have no problems.
It would be like... Do you have siblings?
- How many? - Yes. Two.
Two. You guys ever have a falling out?
I'll let you know when it's over.
Exactly.
And it's like that.
But that's still your sibling forever.
That's my brother.
We don't come from the same mom and dad,
but you know I've watched Kanye...
from without an album.
Like, his-- The thing I respect about him,
is he is the same person.
He interrupted our studio session
and stood on the table and started rapping.
And we were like, "Could you please get down?"
He was like, "No, I am the savior of Chicago."
I was like...
[audience laughs]
He didn't even have a record.
Would he sit here and chat with me?
One hundred percent.
He's brilliant.
I don't know if I can talk about this.
I'm gonna talk about it, you tell me if I can talk about it.
That's how it works. That's how conversations work.
- Like, Dave... - Okay.
What I'm getting to here,
and forgive me for being a dope about this,
is the use of the n-word.
And I even feel silly saying "n-word,"
because...
Don't say the real word, Dave.
No, no, no...
This shit is going so good.
But...
I hear it, uh...
- with great frequency. - Yeah.
You know, when someone has used a word
to down your entire culture...
What hip-hop did was take that word and...
and... flip it,
and use it as a word of empowerment.
There's going to be people that disagree
and agree with this, which is fine.
It's cool...
nice for people to have great discourse with one another about this word.
Some people are highly offended
from another generation,
because they believe that it's the last word that people heard
before they died.
So, they have a really strong emotional connection
to people using the word.
But it's not the word.
It's actually the intent behind the word.
People who are inherently racist,
they'll just replace it with a different word,
or a different way to express racism.
I'm not offended by it.
You should be.
- Nah, fucking with you. - But I know I can't use it.
- No. - Yeah.
Yeah.
I see what you mean. I should be. I am offended.
Yeah.
- I'm not offended when I hear you say it. - I understand.
I understand.
But, like, if my son came home... well, that's it.
No dice there.
Yeah. You still beat your kid?
How many times were you at Def Jam?
Were you there shortly after the beginning?
Once, you were the president. What's the...?
As an artist, I was there from '97
until 2003 or something like that,
then I became the president.
Then you started your own company.
Yeah. I came into the game as executive producer
and the owner of the label of my first album.
So I wanted to do more inside the building
and it was like, this...
structure that was just so...
I think a lot of them forgot...
why they were in the music business.
The goal is to make forever music.
For me, try to make music of the time,
music of the moment.
That works, people enjoy it,
but the music I listen to today,
still is Off the Wall,
and, you know, Prince music. Songs in the Key of Life.
Shuggie Otis...
These songs were made...
fifty years ago.
This was popular when I was a kid...
and now, good lord, it's been 50 years.
When creating, you wanna try to make...
The goal is to make something that's gonna last forever.
[man] Here's the man right here. Hi.
I'm Dave Letterman.
- Pleasure. - Pleasure to meet you.
- Thank you. - Feeling good?
Everything does feel good. Yeah. This is lovely,
and thank you for your generosity of spirit
and your hospitality.
Thank you so much for coming.
This place. I mean, good heavens.
What else do you want? Nothing. This is it.
- This is it. - Yeah.
It reminds me of like the way you had your old show
in the Ed Sullivan Theater.
There are certain places where you feel a certain energy,
because a lot of good things happen over a long period of time.
This is one of those places.
When did it become officially a recording studio?
I think it became a recording studio in 1976.
Robbie Robertson and The Band built a studio...
And from what I...
Again, it's all lore.
I don't know what really happened,
but, supposedly, Dylan lived in a tee-pee on the lawn back there.
That was his tour bus,
got converted into a studio.
Did you check out the bus yet?
- [Letterman] Haven't been to the bus. - [Rubin] Lemme show you the bus.
Oh, man, what kinda-- This thing was a, uh...
[Rubin] GM.
My goodness.
And now it's a bona fide recording facility.
We mixed half of Yeezus in this room.
Kanye's album before the last one.
When I was talking to JAY-Z,
he said he defines excellence
as one, two, three decades
of very, very high-quality output.
And he certainly is the personification of that.
He is.
And I've seen you working with him,
and he just walks in,
no notes no nothing,
and starts doing this.
When I first heard it, I was ignorant about all of this,
because I was busy with my own nonsense on TV.
But this stuff...
it's very sophisticated.
Absolutely.
There's wisdom in his lyrics.
I don't know how he knows all that he knows,
but he knows a lot.
- [Letterman] Very smart man. - [Rubin] Yeah.
[Letterman] Tell me more about yourself.
When you were a kid,
what did you listen to?
I listened to the Beatles--
First thing I remember listening to was the Beatles.
- Beatles and the Monkees. - Yeah.
I think Let It Be was the first album I got as a little kid.
And then went backwards from there.
Were the Beatles a big deal to you?
Huge!
I mean...
Here's the great thing about the Beatles for me, Rick.
The country...
you know, was... dark.
It was just dark, it had gone dark.
The assassination turned the lights out on the country.
And then, like in February,
we start hearing "I Want to Hold Your Hand"
is now being played on the radio.
By the time I was a senior in high school,
the exchange student,
a lovely young high school kid from England,
was in our high school, and we dated.
So, I got to spend one year with this beautiful girl
with a British accent,
and...
the background music for our high school romance
was the Beatles,
- Unbelievable. - It was cool.
It was about the coolest thing
that's ever happened to me, honestly.
But I'll take it, for God's sake.
And why not?
The other thing that I find interesting is,
hip hop is all biographical.
Am I right about that?
No.
It's meant...
it pretends to be.
A lot of guys are just telling stories.
Very few people are telling
their real true life story.
- Really? - Yeah.
Even in the beginning,
when kids were just starting out?
Yeah. They're lying.
Sorry.
That's delightful.
- Yeah. Nine times out of ten. - Wow.
I find that very funny, actually.
I remember reading something, where...
you play with your lyrics,
and it's very complex stuff.
♪ I'm from where niggas pull your car ♪
♪ Argue all day about who's the best MCs Biggie, JAY-Z, and Nas ♪
♪ Where the drugs czars evolve And thugs always are ♪
♪ At each other's throats For the love of foreign cars ♪
♪ Where cats catch cases Hoping the judge R and R's ♪
♪ But most times find themselves Locked up behind bars ♪
I mean, to listen to it once...
You know, get in line again.
You're going to listen to it over and over again,
because there are references
about the life, made up or true,
and then there are references that apply
and exist only in that culture,
and then there are personal references.
So, it's very complicated.
- It's flying around. - It is flying around.
- Yeah, yeah. - When you're doing that,
how do you know when you're done?
Great question.
It's a feeling.
It's really a feeling of...
trying to have some sort of structure,
a beginning, middle, and end.
You try to have some...
Whatever you're creating, got to have some type of structure.
Whether you happen upon it by accident,
or you have intention to do it.
Again, it's just a feeling.
You know when it's completed.
When-- And this is a stupid comparison,
but look who you're talking to.
When I used to write jokes...
sometimes, they would just... boom, appear in my head,
and then sometimes you would actually have to go and...
work and work and work.
But, at the end, the effect was... either method would produce a laugh.
Is it similar with writing hip hop lyrics?
Yeah. Yeah.
Sometimes it happens immediately.
Songs happen in three minutes sometimes, literally.
And then songs...
"Forever Young" took me about a month to finish.
It's like, "I can never finish this song."
And it never turned out the way I wanted it.
And it went on to be a really successful song for me,
but I can't even, like...
It still bothers me that I didn't finish it the way I wanted to.
Here's something that happened the other day.
My son and I are driving in the car,
and he starts this...
[beatboxes falteringly]
And I'm so dumb, I'm thinking...
- Is he okay? - ...something wrong with his stomach?
And I said, "Harry, what the hell are you doing?"
He said, "Dad, you've interrupted my flow."
Yeah.
What is "the flow"?
It's...
You know the flow very well.
You've told jokes and stood on stage
so many times,
and you just know when you're in the rhythm,
when you-- one joke leads to another and another.
That's what defines a great comic,
someone who can stitch together
moments and then bring it back.
It's just when you catch a pocket,
and you just keep taking that thing,
and it goes further and further.
Yeah.
I'd like to agree with you.
That has not been my experience.
But the idea that...
I watched some early video of you,
and it's hard work.
♪ In a room full of vultures Industry shady it need to be taken over ♪
♪ Label owners hate me I'm raisin the status quo up ♪
♪ I'm over-chargin' dudes for what they did to the cold crush ♪
♪ Pay us like you owe us ♪
Yeah, it's a lot of things working at the same time.
You can be great-- You can have a great voice,
and you can just almost say anything.
I think Snoop Dogg has a great voice.
He can say, "One, two, three and to the four..."
And it's like, "My God."
It just sounds good. Right?
It just sounds really good.
Or you can be someone like Eminem,
and just have amazing cadence.
And it's almost like this syncopation.
It's like...
[freestyles rhythmically]
You almost become... it's percussion...
inside the music.
So there's multiple ways to be really good.
Some people just have it all.
[Letterman] What can we do today?
What can you help us with today?
Let's go inside.
There's a new artist named Madison Ward who has a beautiful voice.
♪ Gave you my soul ♪
That's nice. Yeah.
You want it a little faster than that?
No, that's great. That's great.
Would you guys mind if we did one more?
We missed one of the notes there.
[man] My bad.
This is the studio.
- Hi Madison, I'm Dave Letterman. - Nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you.
Thank you very much for letting us do this.
Why is it you and Rick are here?
Rick's having me work through
this song that I recorded a while back.
- Did you write this song? - I did. Yeah.
We just got started not that long ago,
and we're working through...
all these things I've written. We're coming together,
and I've got this amazing band here to help me,
and we're just seeing what we can do.
What is your objective in music?
Just to be honest.
And move people in a way that they've never been moved before.
That's really it.
As long as it moves you...
isn't that pretty much the end of the project?
I think so. With this song in particular, yes.
This moves me pretty much.
I hope everybody else will feel the same.
I would like...
I like a lot of echo.
Lot of...
- Is it "compression" or... whatever. - Both.
- Yeah. - Give you both.
We'll just try a few like that...
and decide. Okay?
Yeah. Perfect.
I'm an idiot.
And then...
The Nelson boys,
are they over in there?
Don't talk to them.
Everybody good in there?
Let's do it.
One... two... three.
♪ You took my heart ♪
♪ And gave it a home ♪
♪ We made it through the aching part ♪
♪ And I gave you my soul ♪
♪ Oh, we tried to kill the pain ♪
♪ And heal these scars ♪
♪ But now love has had its say ♪
♪ And we're moving apart ♪
♪ So keep me in your mirror ♪
♪ But don't take your eyes off the road ♪
♪ Holding on won't get us Any nearer ♪
♪ 'Cause we got a long way to go ♪
♪ Sometimes it's hard to see ♪
♪ That some things Just won't be ♪
- Wow. - Felt good.
Wow. See, I didn't--
I didn't-- Can I talk?
I didn't know we were just going to sit there and sing it.
I thought you had to go to a thing
to sing it somewhere else. I'm sorry.
- That was crazy. - It's all good.
That's crazy.
Like, "Oh, my God. She's singing it right here.
I'm going to screw it up somehow."
That was beautiful.
- Just beautiful. - Thank you.
So, did we like that?
Yeah, okay, all right?
Well, yeah.
Should I walk you out? You done?
No, yeah. I think--
I don't know what to do.
That was...
scary.
You guys all right in there?
Okay.
Yeah, you heard we're not paying you.
[Letterman] God, beautiful. That was lovely.
I believe the reason why it's called...
the universal language, music,
is like, the more I know about you, the more I can...
relate to you.
The more I can have compassion about what you're going through.
If you know about my family and all the things that happened
with my dad and mom,
grew up, single mother, four kids at 20.
I'm sure Harry is driving you nuts.
Right? You've got a whole full staff in the house, and your wife's there.
Not supposed to talk about the staff, Dave?
The point is... my mother...
four kids, 20...
That's her experience.
And there are people out there that say,
"My mom had a baby when she was 15."
Now, people can relate to my story.
So, back to the original point.
So that conversation that's being had is drawing energy
in one place
of like-minded people,
who've gone through the same experience,
or if you haven't gone through it, you're like,
"I thought that this guy was some
asshole with a big staff.
But he actually is a regular, nice person
who went through this, this, this, and that.
Like my dad, even my dad...
Now that I look back on it,
I relate.
I feel-- I'm like, man...
I have compassion for what he went through,
which was anger...
my whole life...
Like, 30 to 36 when we got a chance to...
How old were you when he left?
We'll just call it ten. Ten, 11...
Ten, 11.
I look at my son, and I think about...
families that come apart,
And it's a fact of life.
Yeah.
And it just...
I don't know.
Ten or 11. Think about when your son is ten or 11,
if you weren't around.
It would kill you.
That's right. Yeah.
- Your mother, on the album 4:44... - Yeah.
- "Smile." - "Smile." Yeah.
- That's beautiful. - Thank you.
- Just beautiful. - Thank you.
She wrote the coda to that piece.
- Yeah. - Yeah.
And, uh...
My goodness, your mother is a lesbian.
I guess you knew that she was gay early on.
Yeah.
The only thing about that experience for me, is her.
Imagine being...
imagine having to live your life as someone else.
And you think you're protecting your kids.
This was a time...
It's not like now.
Now everyone's more accepting to everyone's lifestyle.
And there's still people out there...
who are living in a different time.
But we look at those people as-- "You're living in a different time."
And for my mother...
to have to live as someone that she wasn't
and hide and protect her kids,
and didn't want to embarrass her kids,
for all this time.
And for her to sit in front of me and tell me, "I think I love someone."
I mean, I really cried.
That's a real story.
I cried, because I was so happy for her
that she was free.
You know? It was like...
How old were you when that happened?
This happened eight months ago,
when the album was being made.
She just told me.
I made the song the next day.
I'm sorry. This is when you learned your mother was gay?
No, I knew, but this is first time we had the conversation,
and the first time I heard her say she loved her partner.
Like, "I feel like I love somebody."
She said, "I feel like..."
She held that little bit back, still.
She didn't say, "I'm in love."
She said, "I feel like I love someone."
And I just... I cried. I don't even believe in crying because you're happy.
I don't even know what that is.
What is that?
Were you scared before you had your kids?
Yeah. I was... terrified.
- Yeah. - Yeah.
I was worried about being a good father.
Yeah.
We'd never seen that ever...
There weren't very many examples for us growing up, of that.
We had a high IQ for other things.
I could tell you, somebody walked in the room was...
plotting or something from a mile away.
I could see that person in the corner,
and be like, "Okay. They got a gun in their pocket.
All right, we should probably leave
because this is happening."
But... emotional IQ was like...
minus...
a hundred.
So, the second your daughter is born,
boom, that all goes away.
- And it just clicks in. - Yeah.
- It's strange. - Isn't that remarkable?
Yeah.
And then I always follow this sentiment up with, "Why...
...isn't that emotion transcendent in the world?"
You know?
- Because everybody has kids. - That's right.
So, why doesn't that work beyond?
- Fear. - Yeah.
Most times you find that people have been hurt,
and they build this...
Again, it's like breaking down
to the very basic of who we are,
you and I.
We both have the same fears,
we both have the same... We're twins, right?
We both have the same angst
about our children growing up.
We both have the same...
you know...
whatever...
We're both excited Judd is here.
You know, those basic emotions...
things that are invisible,
that are really important, that we really...
You know, love...
and loyalty and integrity
and all these things.
Those are the things we have in common.
And then, fear...
Okay, you're white, I'm a black guy.
You have a beard. I have a beard on my head.
All these things that are different,
that separate us, are fear based.
There was...
I guess it was in the op-ed section of the New York Times.
A piece that you wrote not so long ago...
about a friend who was violating...
theoretically violating his parole
because he was doing wheelies on a dirt bike.
Yeah.
I know it sounds ridiculous...
- The kid's name is Meek Mill. - Meek Mill.
- [JAY-Z] Yeah. - [Letterman] How did you get into his life?
How did you know about this?
What are you doing for people who may fall prey to this?
[JAY-Z] We manage him currently, like right now.
This judge felt the need to violate him for two to four years...
for two things.
One, he was shooting a video,
and he was riding a motorcycle and doing wheelies.
And two, there was a guy who asked him for an autograph,
and...
he was like, "Man, I'm leaving, I got a flight."
And the guy got mad and started hitting his friend, so he pulled the guy off.
And the case got dismissed on that,
because they had the camera and they saw that--
"He didn't start any trouble.
He was trying to leave, the guy hitting his friend..."
His friend is a little guy, who actually
had a head injury.
So the guy's hitting his friend,
and he pulls the guy off his friend.
He's in jail currently.
Mm-hmm. And there's a documentary about a kid named Kalief Browder.
- Yeah. - Tell me about that.
That was the most heartbreaking project
I've ever worked on.
A young kid, he was 16 at the time.
They pulled him up randomly,
accused him of stealing a backpack.
They locked him in one of the most notorious jails,
which is Rikers Island,
and they held him there
for three years without a trial.
So, this kid never...
had the benefit of due process?
He didn't...
he wasn't convicted of anything.
Three years, he was in solitary confinement. 180 days.
And they call solitary confinement "The Bing," because after 40 days,
they say your mind just bings.
It flips over.
And at the end of all this, he gets out.
He goes, he's taking his GED.
I met with him.
I called him, and said,
"I just want to give you some comfort,
and like anything you need.
If you need any help on anything..."
And he left the office.
I thought this was a good story,
the way it ends,
I was like, "That kid's been through so much,
and he's... going to make it."
I get a call maybe two weeks later.
He killed himself.
He killed himself, he couldn't take it.
It's like, his mind...
just a really heartbreaking story.
We went to Sundance
and we premiered this film,
and it was an audience pretty much like this.
There was a girl in front,
and she just was crying, and like shaking.
And I was like, "Man, I know."
And I went over to her and I hugged her.
And she said, "The same thing happened to my brother."
So, he's not this outlier
that everyone would like you to believe.
It happens more than...
I mean... one in three.
That was the number.
One in three black or Latino males are in jail.
One out of three.
That's like...
One, two. That's you.
Know what I'm saying?
Yeah. And, uh...
Could have been you also, years ago.
Matter of fact. One, two, definitely me.
My bad.
I don't have the statistics,
but my guess is, this happens
more in communities where there are...
- black people... - And Latino.
And Latino.
Not so much in communities where there are white people.
No, the numbers are disproportionate. It's unbelievable.
Yeah.
Currently, someone today...
is going through this.
And your scholarship fund is to...
like a concierge that will help the kids
get through high school,
get into college.
The idea is if someone has the grades...
Because life gets in the way a lot of times.
If you're motivated and you want to go to college,
and your parents just don't have the means or something,
we have a scholarship to help them out.
My mom's been running it for 10 years.
She goes on the bus tours,
taking kids to different colleges,
and just preparing them for college life.
And we have graduates now.
It's a beautiful thing to see.
I'll be honest with you.
I've lately grown...
I'm beginning to lose confidence
in the Trump administration.
[audience laughs]
I don't know.
What is...
What do you think of that?
I think it's actually...
a great thing.
And here's why.
I think that what he's forcing people to do
is have a conversation,
and people to band together and work together.
Like, you can't really address something
that's not revealed.
He's bringing out an ugly side of America
that we wanted to believe was gone.
And it's still here, and we've got to deal with it.
We have to have the conversation.
We have to have tough conversations. We have to talk about the n-word.
We have to talk about why white men are so privileged in this country.
I completely agree.
And I'll tell you what... I think...
and I've said this a thousand times.
We don't need any more evidence.
It's not like, "Did you hear what happened today? Oh, did you?"
I mean, is he a racist, is he not a racist?
I'm telling you, if you're having a debate over
whether a guy is a racist,
chances are that guy is a racist.
So...
- But that doesn't do any good. - Right.
It really doesn't do any good, you know?
Case closed, no more calls, we have a winner.
The humanity that this country has to represent,
has been refueled by this dumbass.
That's right.
And because I don't have any answers for this,
I keep saying,
"I think this problem will take care of itself."
I don't know what that means,
but I think it will take care of itself.
You know? Don't you somehow?
We can't continue.
I think as far as physically, now it takes people like you speaking out,
and especially all the young people across the country,
to say, "No, this ain't right.
I don't feel like this."
This is not...
I don't represent what he represents,
and I'm going to change that.
I believe that it's going to get more people,
especially young people,
more active than ever.
I think we'll see record-breaking numbers next election.
I think we will break every record.
[audience applauds]
You and I have one other thing in common,
and...
I have to be cautious how I articulate this,
but a few years ago...
I got myself into some trouble.
And the situation was my responsibility
and my fault.
I did something that I had no business doing.
And I regret it, and since then I have tried to acknowledge that mistake
and be a better person.
You can only stop behavior
that was hurting people, and apologize for it, and try to continue
- to be a better person. - That's right.
- At least that's all I know what to do. - Yeah.
But I like to think...
maybe this is flattery that I can't afford,
that I'm a better person.
- Not the person... - Right.
...that caused so much pain for so many people.
But...
at the time, the pain that I caused myself
was the fear that I had blown up my family,
that I was going to be in a situation
where I would see my son every two weeks,
my wife would be...
dating Scott, the dentist from New Jersey.
[audience laughs]
You know Scott?
[audience laughs]
And I would go to therapy,
and I would talk to people about this situation.
And they would tell me various things
to just get me out of the office.
But I never talked to a person
who had been in that situation.
And I'm wondering...
if this rings a bell with you?
- Of course. - The pain of, "Have I done something
to blow up my family?"
Yeah, you know for a lot of us,
we don't have...
especially where I grew up,
and men in general...
We don't have emotional cues from when we're young.
Our emotional cue is, "Be a man, stand up. Don't cry."
I made a song called...
♪ I never seen a cry rolling down my eyes But I never made the song cry ♪
You know, the idea of I would never-- can't seeing it coming down my eyes,
but I've got to make the song cry,
is my way of saying,
"I want to cry. I want to be open.
I want to have the emotional tools
that it takes to keep my family together."
And, much like you, I have a beautiful wife
who was understanding,
and knew that I'm not the worst of what I've done.
And like you, I did the hard work of going to therapy and...
you know, like really...
we love each other.
So, we really put in the work... for years.
This music I'm making now
is the result of things that have happened already.
You know, like you, I like to believe that we're in a better place today,
but still working and communicating and growing.
I'm proud of the father and husband that I am today,
because of all the work that was done.
It's... hard work.
And in saying that, I don't mean, "Oh, I'm heroic."
Yeah.
But it's...
- as scared as I've ever been in my life. - Yeah.
Not to discount the pain I caused others.
[JAY-Z] Right.
But I can't imagine not coming through it.
I can't imagine not having...
- Right. - The end result is...
still a work in progress, but I now know,
I'm a different person,
and I'm not going to...
My worst fear is not coming to pass.
So, you're like Frank Sinatra?
You're going to be doing this till when, you're 70, 80 making music?
I didn't think so, but I may be.
Long as I have the truth.
As long as I have truth to say and information to give.
Like, that conversation right now.
Things that you lived through, to share it with others.
And it's difficult,
but you have information that when you share,
someone at home is like, "Oh, man...
I was thinking about giving up.
Let me let me stick with this and come through the other side.
I see how that looks. I know what that looks like."
We didn't see that. All we saw were people fleeing.
My dad left when I was 11, my uncle left.
We've just seen people give up.
The divorce rate is 50%.
We never see people like, "Okay..."
Let's work through this.
I love you. I love my family.
Let's work through this."
So, back to the point, is the next iteration
of whatever I'm saying.
It's going to be...
another challenge, which is great.
Jeez, I love you.
Thank you, man.
[audience applauds]
♪ I ain't really trying To force anything ♪
♪ I ain't really trying To force your love on me ♪
♪ If you really wanna be A friend to me ♪
♪ Don't be afraid to tell me What you're thinking ♪
♪ 'Cause if you think You wanna live with me ♪
♪ Lie with me, and float down The river of life ♪
♪ Don't ask me to swim upstream ♪
♪ I already tried And I nearly died ♪
♪ Don't be afraid of change ♪
♪ Take my hand ♪
♪ Let go of your plan ♪
♪ Sing you a song along A hill country river ♪
♪ Keep you warm when you start to shiver ♪
♪ Simple things I'm gonna do for you ♪
♪ I don't think twice I do it 'cause I want to ♪
♪ If you think you wanna ride with me ♪
♪ Jump on a horse and outrun the future ♪
♪ Then you'd better learn To love the wind ♪
♪ And keep your hat When it changes direction ♪
♪ Don't be afraid of change ♪
♪ Everybody's gotta let go of something ♪
♪ Don't be afraid of change ♪
♪ Take my hand ♪
♪ Let go of your plan ♪
[Letterman] That was great.
I have a question.
That was beautiful.
Did you originally write that as a duet with a female voice?
No. I just wrote it on my own,
but when she got here yesterday,
and we were working on the song,
I thought this would be incredible as a duet.
It was tremendous.
That was great.
Nice going everybody.
- That was cool. - Thanks.
- Thanks, Dave. - I'll be in here if you need anything.
[jazzy theme music plays]